
Subject:
[cohp] Digest Number 5066
From:
cohp@yahoogroups.com
Date:
6/1/2015 2:45 AM
To:
cohp@yahoogroups.com

County High Pointing in all 50 states
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County High Pointing in all 50 states Group
5 Messages
Digest #5066
1a
Help a Newbie Understand Trespassing by jlhcpa
1b
Re: Help a Newbie Understand Trespassing by "oestreicher oestreicher" richard.oestreicher
1c
Re: Help a Newbie Understand Trespassing by "Scott Surgent" surgent1
2
32 peaks in a day by Alyson and John Kirk by "Andy Martin" oldadit
3
Doug Melton reports invalid Mississippi cohp.org acme map locations by "Andy Martin" oldadit

Messages
1a
Help a Newbie Understand Trespassing
Sun May 31, 2015 6:21 pm (PDT) . Posted by:
jlhcpa
Hi, friends. In recent days, I have been contacted by a new person who may be shy about posting comments to this forum. He is still in high school, still living at home, and therefore still very much under the authority of his parents. Without revealing him completely - I believe that's his job if and when he chooses to do so - I will tell you his initials are CS, and he lives in the lower part of MI.

He and his parents are concerned about high-points that may be on private property. One example would be Michigan's Mount Christie.

Would you all be willing to provide a discussion about how you handle trespassing issues at the various high-pointing destinations? I will be sure to bring this discussion to his attention. He has asked me numerous questions, but I would like to have the wisdom and experience of the multitude of others who participate in this discussion group.

Clear as mud? I hope so. Reasonable Q&A might be, for example, is a trespassing sign a show-stopper? How do you handle when you see one? Contact the owner? Complete the mission regardless? Find another route? Come back another day? So many questions, so many different perspectives on how this situation should be handled. Feel free to share as much as you can about "experiences you know about", not necessarily your own...........

Thanks. Let the discussion begin.

John Hasch
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1b
Re: Help a Newbie Understand Trespassing
Sun May 31, 2015 8:58 pm (PDT) . Posted by:
"oestreicher oestreicher" richard.oestreicher

--------------------------------------------
On Sun, 5/31/15, jlhcpa@yahoo.com [cohp] <cohp@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [cohp] Help a Newbie Understand Trespassing
To: cohp@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, May 31, 2015, 8:21 PM


 
I don't have hard and fast rules but play it by ear according to my sense of the surroundings. My major concerns are safety, avoiding legal difficulties, and not disturbing people's privacy. I will very rarely trespass (that is enter property without permission) if I am close to a dwelling, or in a heavily developed area, especially if potential parking spots are clearly visible. If there is a dwelling with a probable land owner I knock on the door and ask permission. I find I am rarely turned down. The problem is they are often not home, or it is often not clear whom to ask. This morning I had hoped to do Fleming County Ky. It's several miles up a slow narrow road to the owner's house. Nobody was home. I turned around. Maybe next time.

Probably my major exceptions are where I'm in a secluded and isolated spot with well sheltered parking or when the round trip will be less than 5 minutes.

Dick Oestreicher








Hi, friends.  In recent days, I have been
contacted by a new person who may be shy about posting
comments to this forum.  He is still in high school, still
living at home, and therefore still very much under the
authority of his parents.  Without revealing him completely
- I believe that's his job if and when he chooses to do
so - I will tell you his initials are CS, and he lives in
the lower part of MI.

He
and his parents are concerned about high-points that may be
on private property.  One example would be Michigan's
Mount Christie.

Would you
all be willing to provide a discussion about how you handle
trespassing issues at the various high-pointing
destinations?  I will be sure to bring this discussion to
his attention.  He has asked me numerous questions, but I
would like to have the wisdom and experience of the
multitude of others who participate in this discussion
group.

Clear as mud?  I
hope so.  Reasonable Q&A might be, for example, is a
trespassing sign a show-stopper?  How do you handle when
you see one?  Contact the owner?  Complete the mission
regardless?  Find another route?  Come back another day? 
So many questions, so many different perspectives on how
this situation should be handled.  Feel free to share as
much as you can about "experiences you know
about", not necessarily your own...........

Thanks.  Let the discussion
begin.

John Hasch









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1c
Re: Help a Newbie Understand Trespassing
Sun May 31, 2015 10:22 pm (PDT) . Posted by:
"Scott Surgent" surgent1
If this young person is looking at visiting the cohps of Michigan, for
example, and he has time on his side, then he should determine who owns
each property and reach out to the landowner in advance through a letter or
phone call. Determining who owns what is the biggest challenge. Tax
assessor offices can usually help, but you may need to know the property's
township/range/tier/section and all that fun stuff.

Or, go ahead and visit each highpoint area and see if you can find the
landowner while there. If not, ask a neighbor. Go home and follow up with
letters/phone calls. This may be a many-year project, but this is half the
fun, and it may resolve most cases in your favor.

If the land is not posted nor fenced, or appears to be fallow or abandoned
or uncared-for, and the HP is right there and it's a short walk ... then I
personally would feel okay and visit it, and if you were to happen upon the
landowner, be honest with that person. Chances are they're concerned that
you're looking for a place to party, hunt illegally, or erect cell-phone
towers. Carry an extra map. They might be amused to know they own the
county highpoint.

If the land is freshly plowed, or being actively used for some business
purpose where my visit would be detrimental, I move on ... unless I can
find the landowner who might still say it's okay. If it's military or
posted every three feet with threatening signs, I move on.

Living in Michigan, he may have a better general sense about attitudes of
landowners when it comes to allowing ad-hoc visits. Maybe people up there
are a little more relaxed about it, which is not to suggest to abuse their
goodwill. But you will have a sense how far you can push the envelope. For
example, you have to "trespass" to cross a fence to walk up to someone's
door. In some states, even that's frowned upon, but maybe not so much in
Michigan.

I don't like to trespass but I have done it, mostly in the western/southern
Great Plains. The land is usually not fenced, postings are few and there is
no one around, so I feel okay about it, even though I know by the letter of
the law I am probably one someone's land. I have been approached a few
times. I just tell them what I am doing, apologize for being a burden, try
to be friendly, be sure both hands are visible, and remember the adage
"it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission". I'm still here, so
that says something.

Scott S.

On 31 May 2015 at 20:55, oestreicher oestreicher
richard.oestreicher@yahoo.com [cohp] <cohp@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Sun, 5/31/15, jlhcpa@yahoo.com [cohp] <cohp@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: [cohp] Help a Newbie Understand Trespassing
> To: cohp@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, May 31, 2015, 8:21 PM
>
>
>
> I don't have hard and fast rules but play it by ear according to my sense
> of the surroundings. My major concerns are safety, avoiding legal
> difficulties, and not disturbing people's privacy. I will very rarely
> trespass (that is enter property without permission) if I am close to a
> dwelling, or in a heavily developed area, especially if potential parking
> spots are clearly visible. If there is a dwelling with a probable land
> owner I knock on the door and ask permission. I find I am rarely turned
> down. The problem is they are often not home, or it is often not clear whom
> to ask. This morning I had hoped to do Fleming County Ky. It's several
> miles up a slow narrow road to the owner's house. Nobody was home. I turned
> around. Maybe next time.
>
> Probably my major exceptions are where I'm in a secluded and isolated spot
> with well sheltered parking or when the round trip will be less than 5
> minutes.
>
> Dick Oestreicher
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi, friends. In recent days, I have been
> contacted by a new person who may be shy about posting
> comments to this forum. He is still in high school, still
> living at home, and therefore still very much under the
> authority of his parents. Without revealing him completely
> - I believe that's his job if and when he chooses to do
> so - I will tell you his initials are CS, and he lives in
> the lower part of MI.
>
> He
> and his parents are concerned about high-points that may be
> on private property. One example would be Michigan's
> Mount Christie.
>
> Would you
> all be willing to provide a discussion about how you handle
> trespassing issues at the various high-pointing
> destinations? I will be sure to bring this discussion to
> his attention. He has asked me numerous questions, but I
> would like to have the wisdom and experience of the
> multitude of others who participate in this discussion
> group.
>
> Clear as mud? I
> hope so. Reasonable Q&A might be, for example, is a
> trespassing sign a show-stopper? How do you handle when
> you see one? Contact the owner? Complete the mission
> regardless? Find another route? Come back another day?
> So many questions, so many different perspectives on how
> this situation should be handled. Feel free to share as
> much as you can about "experiences you know
> about", not necessarily your own...........
>
> Thanks. Let the discussion
> begin.
>
> John Hasch
>
>
>
>
>
>  Privacy <https://info.yahoo.com/privacy/us/yahoo/groups/details.html>
>  Unsubscribe <cohp-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>  Terms
> of Use <https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/>
>
> .
>
>
>
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2
32 peaks in a day by Alyson and John Kirk
Sun May 31, 2015 9:36 pm (PDT) . Posted by:
"Andy Martin" oldadit
To: Prominence & cohp egroups

Yesterday on May 30 Alyson Kirk and her husband
John climbed 32 summits (300 foot drop or more)
in Saguache County Colorado.

(Facebook Login Needed)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/702880736427428/permalink/839820286066805/

This sets the world record (as far as I know)
for 300 foot drop summits hiked in a day with vehicle
assist.

Today Alyson and John were still moving
(most folks are gonna want a breather)
and hiked four more peaks, including 11335
http://listsofjohn.com/peak/2198

This was John's last unclimbed summit in the county.

He joins well know CO peak baggers Ken Nolan,
Mike Garratt and Teresa Gergen as
Saguache summit completers. This list has
258 peaks. Map:

(no login needed)
http://listsofjohn.com/ctymap?c=108&State=CO&p=

A map of the 32 summits hiked on May 30:

(LOJ login + paid up needed)
http://listsofjohn.com/mapasc?m=Alyson+Kirk&dm=05&dd=30&dy=2015&dme=05&dde=30&dye=2015

- Andy

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3
Doug Melton reports invalid Mississippi cohp.org acme map locations
Sun May 31, 2015 10:22 pm (PDT) . Posted by:
"Andy Martin" oldadit
(Doug Melton to me)
>The first county in Mississippi that you might want to Look at it
Noxubee. As you will see, the points plot several hundred feet away
from the crests on the topo maps. This is not the only example but the
lst one that I worked with.
See also Kemper and Neshoba Counites, MS.

(Andy)
Confirmed for these 3 counties. Acme map locations
all shifted about 200 meters north. MSTopo locations
right on the money.

http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=32.94424,-88.69076&z=15&t=T
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=32.71634999999999,-88.84268&z=15&t=T
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=32.67439,-88.9878&z=15&t=T

All (?) points in these counties are shifted about
200 meters north when looked at with
googlepages in USTopo, CalTopo and ArcGis Topo.
Also shifted on Google Earth and acme map.

But it looks ok on Googlepages with the MSTopo layer.

I'm guessing that the person who worked up Mississippi
used MSTopo, and MSTopo is in error ??

Note that NAD27 to NAD83 shift is less than 30 meters in
MS, so the 200 meter shift is due to some other factor.

(NAD27 to NAD83 shift map)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Datum#/media/File:Datum_Shift_Between_NAD27_and_NAD83.png

(Bcakground info)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Datum

In any case, it is going to take some work to:

1. Identify the bad counties in Mississippi.
2. Determine how to fix the problem.
3. (If needed) Upload new coordinates to cohp.org
4. (extra credit if needed) Fix googlepages for MS.

Is Fred Dale still our Mississippi man ?? ;)

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