
Subject:
[cohp] Digest Number 5068
From:
cohp@yahoogroups.com
Date:
6/3/2015 2:04 AM
To:
cohp@yahoogroups.com

County High Pointing in all 50 states
Yahoo! Groups
County High Pointing in all 50 states Group
6 Messages
Digest #5068
1a
Re: [cohp] Doug Melton reports invalid Mississippi cohp.org acme map by "Tom Owen" emmanuelwdinc
1b
Re: Doug Melton reports invalid Mississippi cohp.org acme map locati by "Doug Melton" doug72901
2a
Re: Help a Newbie Understand Trespassing by rcw335
2b
Re: Help a Newbie Understand Trespassing by "Garrick Meeker" garrickmeeker
2c
Re: Help a Newbie Understand Trespassing by "bbowerslists" bbowers311
2d
Re: Help a Newbie Understand Trespassing by "Garrick Meeker" garrickmeeker

Messages
1a
Re: [cohp] Doug Melton reports invalid Mississippi cohp.org acme map
Tue Jun 2, 2015 10:59 am (PDT) . Posted by:
"Tom Owen" emmanuelwdinc
Hello all,

I originally researched those those coordinates and can't believe that I would be off that much so systematically.

My first thought would be mis-aligned quads either then or now in east central Mississippi. Some spot checking shows
only those 3 counties mentioned (Noxubee, Kemper and Neshoba Counites) as being in error.
Surrounding Newton, Lauderdale and Winston all seem to be correct. Greene county AL is correct as are other points in
Peakbagger surrounding the counties in question (Hit Mountain).

I will check more thoroughly and report back corrected coordinates within the week.

My apologies
TO


> -------Original Message-------
> From: Andy Martin oldadit@gmail.com [cohp] <cohp@yahoogroups.com>
> To: Cohp Egroup <cohp@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [cohp] Doug Melton reports invalid Mississippi cohp.org acme map locations
> Sent: Jun 01 '15 00:23
>
>
>
> (Doug Melton to me)
> >The first county in Mississippi that you might want to Look at it
> Noxubee. As you will see, the points plot several hundred feet away
> from the crests on the topo maps. This is not the only example but
> the
> lst one that I worked with.
> See also Kemper and Neshoba Counites, MS.
>
> (Andy)
> Confirmed for these 3 counties. Acme map locations
> all shifted about 200 meters north. MSTopo locations
> right on the money.
>
> http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=32.94424,-88.69076&z=15&t=T
> http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=32.71634999999999,-88.84268&z=15&t=T
> http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=32.67439,-88.9878&z=15&t=T
>
> All (?) points in these counties are shifted about
> 200 meters north when looked at with
> googlepages in USTopo, CalTopo and ArcGis Topo.
> Also shifted on Google Earth and acme map.
>
> But it looks ok on Googlepages with the MSTopo layer.
>
> I'm guessing that the person who worked up Mississippi
> used MSTopo, and MSTopo is in error ??
>
> Note that NAD27 to NAD83 shift is less than 30 meters in
> MS, so the 200 meter shift is due to some other factor.
>
> (NAD27 to NAD83 shift map)
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Datum#/media/File:Datum_Shift_Between_NAD27_and_NAD83.png
>
> (Bcakground info)
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Datum
>
> In any case, it is going to take some work to:
>
> 1. Identify the bad counties in Mississippi.
> 2. Determine how to fix the problem.
> 3. (If needed) Upload new coordinates to cohp.org
> 4. (extra credit if needed) Fix googlepages for MS.
>
> Is Fred Dale still our Mississippi man ?? ;)
>
>

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1b
Re: Doug Melton reports invalid Mississippi cohp.org acme map locati
Tue Jun 2, 2015 11:13 am (PDT) . Posted by:
"Doug Melton" doug72901
Tom,

I have the correct coordinates if you want them. I pulled the correct coordinates as I processed the LiDAR data.

Doug
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 6/2/15, 'Tom Owen' emmanuel@wdinc.org [cohp] <cohp@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [cohp] Doug Melton reports invalid Mississippi cohp.org acme map locations
To: cohp@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, June 2, 2015, 12:59 PM


 









Hello all,



I originally researched those those coordinates and
can't believe that I would be off that much so
systematically.



My first thought would be mis-aligned quads either then or
now in east central Mississippi. Some spot checking shows


only those 3 counties mentioned (Noxubee, Kemper and Neshoba
Counites) as being in error.

Surrounding Newton, Lauderdale and Winston all seem to be
correct. Greene county AL is correct as are other points in


Peakbagger surrounding the counties in question (Hit
Mountain).



I will check more thoroughly and report back corrected
coordinates within the week.



My apologies

TO





> -------Original Message-------

> From: Andy Martin oldadit@gmail.com [cohp]
<cohp@yahoogroups.com>

> To: Cohp Egroup <cohp@yahoogroups.com>

> Subject: [cohp] Doug Melton reports invalid
Mississippi cohp.org acme map locations

> Sent: Jun 01 '15 00:23

>

>

>

> (Doug Melton to me)

> >The first county in Mississippi that you might
want to Look at it

> Noxubee. As you will see, the points plot several
hundred feet away

> from the crests on the topo maps. This is not the only
example but

> the

> lst one that I worked with.

> See also Kemper and Neshoba Counites, MS.

>

> (Andy)

> Confirmed for these 3 counties. Acme map locations

> all shifted about 200 meters north. MSTopo
locations

> right on the money.

>

>
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=32.94424,-88.69076&z=15&t=T

>
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=32.71634999999999,-88.84268&z=15&t=T

>
http://mapper.acme.com/?ll=32.67439,-88.9878&z=15&t=T

>

> All (?) points in these counties are shifted about

> 200 meters north when looked at with

> googlepages in USTopo, CalTopo and ArcGis Topo.

> Also shifted on Google Earth and acme map.

>

> But it looks ok on Googlepages with the MSTopo
layer.

>

> I'm guessing that the person who worked up
Mississippi

> used MSTopo, and MSTopo is in error ??

>

> Note that NAD27 to NAD83 shift is less than 30 meters
in

> MS, so the 200 meter shift is due to some other
factor.

>

> (NAD27 to NAD83 shift map)

>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Datum#/media/File:Datum_Shift_Between_NAD27_and_NAD83.png

>

> (Bcakground info)

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Datum

>

> In any case, it is going to take some work to:

>

> 1. Identify the bad counties in Mississippi.

> 2. Determine how to fix the problem.

> 3. (If needed) Upload new coordinates to cohp.org

> 4. (extra credit if needed) Fix googlepages for MS.

>

> Is Fred Dale still our Mississippi man ?? ;)

>

>











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2a
Re: Help a Newbie Understand Trespassing
Tue Jun 2, 2015 11:24 am (PDT) . Posted by:
rcw335

Here's my guide to making contact with the Landowner:

Best: In person meeting
Good: Phone conversation
Fair to Poor: Letter or email
Bad: A chance encounter while trespassing
Worst: A chance encounter while trespassing AFTER being denied
permission

Having said that, I size up each private property adventure based on
the situation. If it's unposted, unfenced and uninhabited, I enter
uninhibited. If houses are in the area, I select a parking place hidden from view
and a route that widely bypasses the buildings. I'll also visit on a
weekday morning when most people would be at work. Some postings are done for
liability reasons, so if I have read in other reports that the landowner is
friendly to hikers, I proceed without permission. I have on occasion
contacted the landowner, but only if I have a reasonable expectation that they'll
grant permission, and I have a reasonable expectation that I can locate
them with minimal effort (which is usually a problem).
Most trespassers are up to no good: poachers, vandals, thieves,
dumpers, arsonists, ect, so it's not surprising that when I have a chance
encounter with a landowner, at first they are generally hostile. Once they
learn my object, they soften up and I have seldom been ordered off a property.
It's been said before in this forum, but I'll mention again that it helps
to have a female in your party.

rich wilson


In a message dated 5/31/2015 6:21:45 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
cohp@yahoogroups.com writes:

Hi, friends. In recent days, I have been contacted by a new person who
may be shy about posting comments to this forum. He is still in high school,
still living at home, and therefore still very much under the authority of
his parents. Without revealing him completely - I believe that's his job
if and when he chooses to do so - I will tell you his initials are CS, and
he lives in the lower part of MI.

He and his parents are concerned about high-points that may be on private
property. One example would be Michigan's Mount Christie.

Would you all be willing to provide a discussion about how you handle
trespassing issues at the various high-pointing destinations? I will be sure
to bring this discussion to his attention. He has asked me numerous
questions, but I would like to have the wisdom and experience of the multitude of
others who participate in this discussion group.

Clear as mud? I hope so.&nb sp; Reasonable Q&A might be, for example, is
a trespassing sign a show-stopper? How do you handle when you see one?
Contact the owner? Complete the mission regardless? Find another route?
Come back another day? So many questions, so many different perspectives on
how this situation should be handled. Feel free to share as much as you
can about "experiences you know about", not necessarily your own...........

Thanks. Let the discussion begin.

John Hasch
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2b
Re: Help a Newbie Understand Trespassing
Tue Jun 2, 2015 12:48 pm (PDT) . Posted by:
"Garrick Meeker" garrickmeeker
Those days are long in the past for me (past the statute of limitations) but I had a few minor encounters, such as with a sheepherder who didnt care and someone who drove past me at my car and was suspicious. But I also had an encounter will a group of bowhunters at first light just before I was back on public land. They werent the landowners but a group that had permission to hunt. Basically I played the part of being a little clueless. I dressed in shorts and bright colors, knowing that there was no where to hide so I might as well not look like a poacher, and I planned a story about birding. They just gave me a stern warning not to come back (Im guessing they didnt want to spoil their plans). I also tended to park extra far away and approach with a bike or even arrange a ride. If you look like a poacher or try to run or get caught after being denied permission or catch a landowner whos had bad experiences, youll probably have a harder time talking your way out of it.

Im not sure sure about the weekday comment. If there are antennas or other structures serviced by 9-5 kind of workers you might be better off on a weekend. Out west at least, I dont think many of the landowners are commuting during the week.

> On Jun 2, 2015, at 11:24 AM, Rwils335@aol.com [cohp] <cohp@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Here's my guide to making contact with the Landowner:
>
> Best: In person meeting
> Good: Phone conversation
> Fair to Poor: Letter or email
> Bad: A chance encounter while trespassing
> Worst: A chance encounter while trespassing AFTER being denied permission
>
> Having said that, I size up each private property adventure based on the situation. If it's unposted, unfenced and uninhabited, I enter uninhibited. If houses are in the area, I select a parking place hidden from view and a route that widely bypasses the buildings. I'll also visit on a weekday morning when most people would be at work. Some postings are done for liability reasons, so if I have read in other reports that the landowner is friendly to hikers, I proceed without permission. I have on occasion contacted the landowner, but only if I have a reasonable expectation that they'll grant permission, and I have a reasonable expectation that I can locate them with minimal effort (which is usually a problem).
> Most trespassers are up to no good: poachers, vandals, thieves, dumpers, arsonists, ect, so it's not surprising that when I have a chance encounter with a landowner, at first they are generally hostile. Once they learn my object, they soften up and I have seldom been ordered off a property. It's been said before in this forum, but I'll mention again that it helps to have a female in your party.
>
> rich wilson
>
> In a message dated 5/31/2015 6:21:45 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, cohp@yahoogroups.com <mailto:cohp@yahoogroups.com> writes:
> Hi, friends. In recent days, I have been contacted by a new person who may be shy about posting comments to this forum. He is still in high school, still living at home, and therefore still very much under the authority of his parents. Without revealing him completely - I believe that's his job if and when he chooses to do so - I will tell you his initials are CS, and he lives in the lower part of MI.
>
> He and his parents are concerned about high-points that may be on private property. One example would be Michigan's Mount Christie.
>
> Would you all be willing to provide a discussion about how you handle trespassing issues at the various high-pointing destinations? I will be sure to bring this discussion to his attention. He has asked me numerous questions, but I would like to have the wisdom and experience of the multitude of others who participate in this discussion group.
>
> Clear as mud? I hope so.&nb sp; Reasonable Q&A might be, for example, is a trespassing sign a show-stopper? How do you handle when you see one? Contact the owner? Complete the mission regardless? Find another route? Come back another day? So many questions, so many different perspectives on how this situation should be handled. Feel free to share as much as you can about "experiences you know about", not necessarily your own...........
>
> Thanks. Let the discussion begin.
>
> John Hasch
>
>
>
>

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2c
Re: Help a Newbie Understand Trespassing
Tue Jun 2, 2015 1:15 pm (PDT) . Posted by:
"bbowerslists" bbowers311
I can add this. I own a number of the county high points, and have
tower sites located there. If I find people inside the compound, or
the SO does, they will be arrested for tresspassing. My number is on all
the sites, and if someone calls me with this as a reason to be on the
property, I will most likely give them the combo for the gate.

Too much copper theft to handle it otherwise.

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2d
Re: Help a Newbie Understand Trespassing
Tue Jun 2, 2015 1:22 pm (PDT) . Posted by:
"Garrick Meeker" garrickmeeker
I forgot to add: dont mess things up for others. Many highpoints have had access problems for years because of the actions of one person (not members of this list, as far as I know). In California, San Mateo and King. Do your research and dont try to stealth if the landowner is friendly to hikers.

I was waiting for San Diego to reopen for years (tribe was waiting for federal funds to fix their roads, as I heard it). Time can be on your side for many highpoints if you are patient enough. Properties change hands.

> On Jun 2, 2015, at 12:48 PM, Garrick Meeker garrick@digitalanarchy.com [cohp] <cohp@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Those days are long in the past for me (past the statute of limitations) but I had a few minor encounters, such as with a sheepherder who didnt care and someone who drove past me at my car and was suspicious. But I also had an encounter will a group of bowhunters at first light just before I was back on public land. They werent the landowners but a group that had permission to hunt. Basically I played the part of being a little clueless. I dressed in shorts and bright colors, knowing that there was no where to hide so I might as well not look like a poacher, and I planned a story about birding. They just gave me a stern warning not to come back (Im guessing they didnt want to spoil their plans). I also tended to park extra far away and approach with a bike or even arrange a ride. If you look like a poacher or try to run or get caught after being denied permission or catch a landowner whos had bad experiences, youll probably have a harder time talking your way out of it.
>
> Im not sure sure about the weekday comment. If there are antennas or other structures serviced by 9-5 kind of workers you might be better off on a weekend. Out west at least, I dont think many of the landowners are commuting during the week.
>
>> On Jun 2, 2015, at 11:24 AM, Rwils335@aol.com <mailto:Rwils335@aol.com> [cohp] <cohp@yahoogroups.com <mailto:cohp@yahoogroups.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Here's my guide to making contact with the Landowner:
>>
>> Best: In person meeting
>> Good: Phone conversation
>> Fair to Poor: Letter or email
>> Bad: A chance encounter while trespassing
>> Worst: A chance encounter while trespassing AFTER being denied permission
>>
>> Having said that, I size up each private property adventure based on the situation. If it's unposted, unfenced and uninhabited, I enter uninhibited. If houses are in the area, I select a parking place hidden from view and a route that widely bypasses the buildings. I'll also visit on a weekday morning when most people would be at work. Some postings are done for liability reasons, so if I have read in other reports that the landowner is friendly to hikers, I proceed without permission. I have on occasion contacted the landowner, but only if I have a reasonable expectation that they'll grant permission, and I have a reasonable expectation that I can locate them with minimal effort (which is usually a problem).
>> Most trespassers are up to no good: poachers, vandals, thieves, dumpers, arsonists, ect, so it's not surprising that when I have a chance encounter with a landowner, at first they are generally hostile. Once they learn my object, they soften up and I have seldom been ordered off a property. It's been said before in this forum, but I'll mention again that it helps to have a female in your party.
>>
>> rich wilson
>>
>> In a message dated 5/31/2015 6:21:45 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, cohp@yahoogroups.com <mailto:cohp@yahoogroups.com> writes:
>> Hi, friends. In recent days, I have been contacted by a new person who may be shy about posting comments to this forum. He is still in high school, still living at home, and therefore still very much under the authority of his parents. Without revealing him completely - I believe that's his job if and when he chooses to do so - I will tell you his initials are CS, and he lives in the lower part of MI.
>>
>> He and his parents are concerned about high-points that may be on private property. One example would be Michigan's Mount Christie.
>>
>> Would you all be willing to provide a discussion about how you handle trespassing issues at the various high-pointing destinations? I will be sure to bring this discussion to his attention. He has asked me numerous questions, but I would like to have the wisdom and experience of the multitude of others who participate in this discussion group.
>>
>> Clear as mud? I hope so.&nb sp; Reasonable Q&A might be, for example, is a trespassing sign a show-stopper? How do you handle when you see one? Contact the owner? Complete the mission regardless? Find another route? Come back another day? So many questions, so many different perspectives on how this situation should be handled. Feel free to share as much as you can about "experiences you know about", not necessarily your own...........
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>> Thanks. Let the discussion begin.
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>> John Hasch
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