
Subject:
[cohp] Digest Number 5070
From:
cohp@yahoogroups.com
Date:
6/5/2015 2:12 AM
To:
cohp@yahoogroups.com

County High Pointing in all 50 states
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County High Pointing in all 50 states Group
3 Messages
Digest #5070
1
CNMI - 3pm Thu by "John Mitchler" mitchler69
2a
Re: More detail on Placer County, CA by "Andrew Kirmse" akirmse2
2b
Re: More detail on Placer County, CA by "Doug Melton" doug72901

Messages
1
CNMI - 3pm Thu
Thu Jun 4, 2015 7:35 am (PDT) . Posted by:
"John Mitchler" mitchler69


Radio interview broadcast on www.cnmiradio.com at 3pm Thu June 4, which is 7am Fri in Saipan

You hear a public announcement for a minute and then the streaming starts.

CNMI has four county equivalents (mayoral districts).
Have done Saipan & Tinian, so will try to do Rota on the flight home.



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2a
Re: More detail on Placer County, CA
Thu Jun 4, 2015 8:19 am (PDT) . Posted by:
"Andrew Kirmse" akirmse2
I drove through Verdi, NV last week and stopped by the location of Von
Schmidt's marker there. I'm happy to report that whereas the marker used
to be leaning over next to a dilapidated chain link fence, there is now a
small park around the monument, which has been restored to some dignity.
There are several interesting descriptive signs, including this one
mentioning that Von Schmidt left four iron monuments (with one of the
others presumably being milepost 191 near Lake Tahoe):

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QrvFUOOB18tkT_LWlkd-mlwxTUavTliIgg/view?usp=sharing

On Fri, May 22, 2015 at 10:20 PM, Andrew Kirmse <akirmse@gmail.com> wrote:

> *Summary*
>
> According to the available evidence about the border, the high point of
> Placer County, CA is indeed on the west slope of Mt. Baldy at or on the
> Nevada border, not at Granite Chief. Google Earth terrain data indicates
> that the high point is on the state line, just north of where the Tahoe Rim
> Trail crosses it.
>
> *History*
>
> Granite Chief (9006') was thought to be the high point of Placer County,
> CA until Jerry Brekhus found a higher point (9040''+) near the Nevada
> border in 2008 using this topo map
> <http://caltopo.com/map.html#ll=39.27861,-120.00526&z=15&b=t> dated 1992.
> The map can also be downloaded from the USGS here
> <http://ims.er.usgs.gov/gda_services/download?item_id=5518153>.
>
> In the 2015 USGS topo map (available here
> <http://ims.er.usgs.gov/gda_services/download?item_id=6938522>), the
> 9000' contour on Mt. Baldy no longer crosses the state line, seeming to
> indicate that Granite Chief is the high point. A computer analysis I ran
> in late 2014 with the latest boundary data from the U.S. Census (available
> here <https://www.census.gov/geo/maps-data/data/cbf/cbf_counties.html>)
> indicated the same thing. Google Maps and Earth use the Census's
> boundaries that put the 9000' contour in NV. The identity of the high
> point depends on the precise location of the state boundary.
>
> *Boundary location*
>
> The CA/NV border has a storied history, which can be read here
> <https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dot.ca.gov%2Fhq%2Frow%2Flandsurveys%2FStudy_material%2FState_Boundaries%2Fca-nv-border-p1-2.pdf&ei=cNVcVbjHH4zutQX1_YCoBw&usg=AFQjCNGFugIptc8ybxXR_RivzWapMjhhTg&sig2=edUpt9CZsx_VS2DE1wnF7g&bvm=bv.93756505,d.b2w>.
> The boundary was finally settled in 1982 by a Supreme Court ruling
> <http://njlaw.rutgers.edu/collections/resource.org/US_reports/US/456/456.US.867_1.html> that
> set the north-south section of the boundary as "running southerly along
> said 1872 boundary as surveyed and marked by Allexey W. Von Schmidt to a
> cast iron monument designated as Von Schmidt Milepost 191 on said boundary
> ".
>
> In the National Geodetic Survey database, only two of Von Schmidt's iron
> monuments appear in this area: one near Verdi, NV, and the other the
> milepost 191 mentioned in the ruling, close to the shore of Lake Tahoe:
>
> http://www.geocaching.com/mark/datasheet.aspx?PID=KS1363
> http://www.geocaching.com/mark/datasheet.aspx?PID=KS1400
>
> A KML is listed at the bottom of this message that plots those two
> monuments and draws a straight line between them in purple. The OR/NV/CA
> triple point---also a Von Schmidt monument----is also included in the KML.
>
> *Later surveys*
>
> In 1968, the area was surveyed for a subdivision. One of the survey maps
> <https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3icWNhBosDXRXFfekhxTVVmeUk&authuser=0>
> identifies a point "Found tree stump in rock mound scribed MI-187". This
> was possibly Von Schmidt's milestone 187. That point is marked in the KML,
> and it is slightly west of the line between the two Von Schmidt monuments
> mentioned earlier. Even if it does define the border, the land here in
> California is significantly higher than Granite Chief.
>
> In 1988-1990, the area was surveyed again. The plat for that survey is
> here
> <https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3icWNhBosDXUDMzXzFpWkhjWnc&authuser=0>.
> It's not clear whether the points identified by that survey are definitive,
> since the Supreme Court ruling references only Von Schmidt's survey. Ken
> Jones found one of this survey's markers in 2009 and sent a picture
> <http://oldadit.googlepages.com/StateLineMarker187M.gif> to this group.
> This marker does not appear in the NGS database. It is stamped "187M" and
> has a date of 1989, suggesting it is a redetermination of Von Schmidt's
> milestone 187.
>
> The state boundary lines provided by the Census, and shown in Google Maps,
> appear to be in error. They are significantly to the west of the true
> boundary, and they contain zigzags that are not justified by survey points
> in evidence. Multiple contacts at the USGS, Census, and CA and NV state
> offices have not been able to identify the origin of the boundary in this
> data set.
>
> It is possible that Von Schmidt's survey identified other points along the
> boundary between the monuments, which the Supreme Court would seem to
> consider definitive. Extracts from his field notes (available here
> <https://books.google.com/books?id=VSA0AQAAMAAJ&lpg=PA31&ots=KGQ651cARs&pg=PA30#v=onepage&q&f=false>)
> don't shed much light---a fuller copy would have to be located.
>
> *Additional information*
>
> KML showing points referenced in this message
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3icWNhBosDXVnZYeXptWU55UW8&authuser=0
>
> Visual comparison of the 1992 (bottom) and 2005 (top) USGS topo maps:
> https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3icWNhBosDXR1lkeFRuZmdlY1E&authuser=0
> Thanks to Andy Martin
>
> Picture of the monument near Verdi, NV:
> http://www.sierracollege.edu/ejournals/jsnhb/v2n2/1872.html
>
> Monument at the OR/CA/NV triple point:
>
> https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/gec-history-illustrated/c--syZPtUGc
>
>
> ---Andrew
>
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2b
Re: More detail on Placer County, CA
Thu Jun 4, 2015 8:25 am (PDT) . Posted by:
"Doug Melton" doug72901
Thanks Andrew. Always enjoy history associated with our obsession.
--------------------------------------------
On Thu, 6/4/15, Andrew Kirmse akirmse@gmail.com [cohp] <cohp@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [cohp] Re: More detail on Placer County, CA
To: cohp@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, June 4, 2015, 10:19 AM


 









I drove through Verdi, NV last
week and stopped by the location of Von Schmidt's marker
there.  I'm happy to report that whereas the marker
used to be leaning over next to a dilapidated chain link
fence, there is now a small park around the monument, which
has been restored to some dignity.  There are several
interesting descriptive signs, including this one mentioning
that Von Schmidt left four iron monuments (with one of the
others presumably being milepost 191 near Lake
Tahoe):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QrvFUOOB18tkT_LWlkd-mlwxTUavTliIgg/view?usp=sharing

On Fri, May 22, 2015 at
10:20 PM, Andrew Kirmse <akirmse@gmail.com>
wrote:
Summary

According to the
available evidence about the border, the high point of
Placer County, CA is indeed on the west slope of Mt. Baldy
at or on the Nevada border, not at Granite Chief.  Google
Earth terrain data indicates that the high point is on the
state line, just north of where the Tahoe Rim Trail crosses
it.
History
Granite Chief
(9006') was thought to be the high point of Placer
County, CA until Jerry Brekhus found a higher point
(9040''+) near the Nevada border in 2008 using this
topo map dated 1992.   The map can also be downloaded
from the USGS here.
In the 2015 USGS topo
map (available here),
the 9000' contour on Mt. Baldy no longer crosses the
state line, seeming to indicate that Granite Chief is the
high point.  A computer analysis I ran in late 2014 with
the latest boundary data from the U.S. Census (available here)
indicated the same thing.  Google Maps and Earth use the
Census's boundaries that put the 9000' contour in
NV.  The identity of the high point depends on the precise
location of the state boundary.
Boundary
location
The CA/NV border has a
storied history, which can be read here. 
The boundary was finally settled in 1982 by a Supreme
Court ruling that set the north-south section of the
boundary as
"running
southerly along said 1872 boundary as surveyed and marked by
Allexey W. Von Schmidt to a cast iron monument designated as
Von Schmidt Milepost 191 on said
boundary".  
In the National
Geodetic Survey database, only two of Von Schmidt's iron
monuments appear in this area: one near Verdi, NV, and the
other the milepost 191 mentioned in the ruling, close to the
shore of Lake Tahoe:
http://www.geocaching.com/mark/datasheet.aspx?PID=KS1363
http://www.geocaching.com/mark/datasheet.aspx?PID=KS1400

A KML is listed at the
bottom of this message that plots those two monuments and
draws a straight line between them in purple.  The OR/NV/CA
triple point---also a Von Schmidt monument----is also
included in the KML.
Later surveys

In 1968, the area was
surveyed for a subdivision.  One of the survey
maps identifies a point "Found tree stump in rock
mound scribed MI-187".  This was possibly Von
Schmidt's milestone 187.  That point is marked in the
KML, and it is slightly west of the line between the two Von
Schmidt monuments mentioned earlier.  Even if it does
define the border, the land here in California is
significantly higher than Granite Chief.
In 1988-1990, the area
was surveyed again.  The plat for that survey is here. 
It's not clear whether the points identified by that
survey are definitive, since the Supreme Court ruling
references only Von Schmidt's survey.  Ken Jones found
one of this survey's markers in 2009 and sent a picture
to this group.  This marker does not appear in the NGS
database.  It is stamped "187M" and has a date of
1989, suggesting it is a redetermination of Von
Schmidt's milestone 187.
The state boundary
lines provided by the Census, and shown in Google Maps,
appear to be in error.  They are significantly to the west
of the true boundary, and they contain zigzags that are not
justified by survey points in evidence.  Multiple contacts
at the USGS, Census, and CA and NV state offices have not
been able to identify the origin of the boundary in this
data set.
It is possible that
Von Schmidt's survey identified other points along the
boundary between the monuments, which the Supreme Court
would seem to consider definitive.  Extracts from his field
notes (available here)
don't shed much light---a fuller copy would have to be
located.
Additional
information
KML showing points
referenced in this messagehttps://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3icWNhBosDXVnZYeXptWU55UW8&authuser=0

Visual comparison of
the 1992 (bottom) and 2005 (top) USGS topo
maps:https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3icWNhBosDXR1lkeFRuZmdlY1E&authuser=0
Thanks to Andy
Martin
Picture of the
monument near Verdi, NV:http://www.sierracollege.edu/ejournals/jsnhb/v2n2/1872.html

Monument at the
OR/CA/NV triple point:https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/gec-history-illustrated/c--syZPtUGc


---Andrew












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