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[cohp] Digest Number 5315
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County High Pointing in all 50 states
Yahoo! Groups
County High Pointing in all 50 states Group
6 Messages
Digest #5315
1a
Re. National Monument trip report (non-county) by davidwmolson2
1b
Re: Re. National Monument trip report (non-county) by "xander Carlson" xandathor
2
Assault on Mount Mitchell cyclists ready to race to the top by "GoUpstate.com"
3a
Arbitrary nature of CoHPing. Why I do it. by "Jobe Wymore"
3b
Re: Arbitrary nature of CoHPing. Why I do it. by "xander Carlson" xandathor
4
First Utah Completer in the news by "Andy Martin" oldadit

Messages
1a
Re. National Monument trip report (non-county)
Mon May 16, 2016 8:32 am (PDT) . Posted by:
davidwmolson2

Fred Lobdell posted,
1. National Monument trip report (non-county)
Posted by: "fplobdell" fplobdell@embarqmail.com deadbugman
Date: Sun May 15, 2016 6:31 am ((PDT))

non-county

Belmont-Paul Women's Equality National Monument (90+ ft.) (May 15, 2016)

On April 12 of this year, President Obama issued a proclamation creating the Belmont-Paul Women's Equality National Monument.
-------------------------

This does provide food for thought on just what a 'National Monument' is. ...
Pres. Obama used the National Antiquities Act to proclaim the Belmont-Paul monument.
The National Antiquities Act was intended to provide emergency protection to Indian ruins at risk of pot-hunting damage, etc.
Now-a-days advocates like using it for 'Don't need Congress to approve it' reasons.

I see on Facebook posts from the League of Conservation Voters urging Pres. Obama to declare a large piece of northwest Arizona a new 'Grand Canyon Nat. Mon.', to block any "uranium mining in the Grand Canyon". Inflammatory statements since any such mining would be far from the canyon itself. I haven't seen the proposal itself, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a proposal to declare almost everything in northwest Arizona as national monument.

davidwmolson@aim.com

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1b
Re: Re. National Monument trip report (non-county)
Mon May 16, 2016 9:16 am (PDT) . Posted by:
"xander Carlson" xandathor
Everything that we do in county highpointing has a bit of arbitrariness to it that prominence and isolation does not. But outside of prom and iso, so much of what highest lists are about is varying degrees of arbitrary (even the seven summits depends on what your perspective is on how you define the continents). But generally, the more stable the convention or the list, the more interest tends to develop towards climbing it. Whether you hedge towards Elbrus/Blanc or Cartensz/Kosciuszko, we're not adding new continents in our lifetimes unless some catastrophic asteroid hits and then we'd have bigger problems to worry about.

Further down the line state highpoints is less stable, but from our limited life perspective pretty unmoving. I'm sure a big push by Puerto Rico to be included as a state wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility, but we're not going to be annexing new territories and adding new states.

At the next level of county highpointing, we get changes here and there, but the list is so large that most individuals concentrate on states or regions, so the list will not vary too often for their 'sphere'. We also have a solid system in place that defines county equivalents. Alaska might change from bureaus to census equivalents to counties, but we all still recognize that it is a quasi-county in some sense.

Now we come to national monuments. Under recent Democratic presidents (and this is not a political statement positive/negative just a statement of fact), national monuments are being designated at rate per term that keeps going up. In the last year alone the president has designated 10 new national monuments. From a list perspective this puts too much chaos into the mix to make it a worthwhile pursuit (Imagine being a state completer in Nevada and every year they subdivided two or three counties. The sense of accomplishing a list would never be fully realized). The nature of a national monument itself has also become quite a bit watered down and amorphous as David has suggested. The entire stretch of the California coastline was designated in 2000. Is that a monument or just a protected zone? In 2013 there was the opening of the Military Working Dog Teams National Monument. It's just a statue on a military base, it doesn't even show up on the National Park Service website, yet it's technically a national monument. There are also many national monuments that are not managed by the national park service, but instead the BLM and US Fish and Wildlife. So are these examples of true national monuments or just BLM with steroid level protections? So because of all of this, I find any national monument list to be too vague as national monuments themselves are too ill-defined and subject to the political breeze of the time.

I think this line of reasoning is held by many others in the community and I look at peakbagger lists as a bit of evidence. National parks, which are much more stable and easily definable have 17 people on peakbagger who have it on their priority lists. In contrast, the national monuments list has only Dave Covill showing it as a priority. Now, obviously peakbagger is not the sum total of all list happy climbers, but it is a large sample size of the community.

--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 5/16/16, DavidWmOlson@netscape.net [cohp] <cohp@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

Subject: [cohp] Re. National Monument trip report (non-county)
To: cohp@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, May 16, 2016, 10:32 AM


 











Fred Lobdell posted,

1. National Monument trip report (non-county)

Posted by: "fplobdell" fplobdell@embarqmail.com
deadbugman

Date: Sun May 15, 2016 6:31 am ((PDT))





non-county

 

Belmont-Paul Women's Equality National Monument (90+
ft.) (May 15, 2016)

 

On April 12 of this year, President Obama issued a
proclamation creating the Belmont-Paul Women's Equality
National Monument.

-------------------------



This does provide food for thought on just what a
'National Monument' is. ...

Pres. Obama used the National Antiquities Act to proclaim
the Belmont-Paul monument.

The National Antiquities Act was intended to provide
emergency protection to Indian ruins at risk of pot-hunting
damage, etc.

Now-a-days advocates like using it for 'Don't need
Congress to approve it' reasons.



I see on Facebook posts from the League of Conservation
Voters urging Pres. Obama to declare a large piece of
northwest Arizona a new 'Grand Canyon Nat. Mon.', to
block any "uranium mining in the Grand Canyon". 
Inflammatory statements since any such mining would be far
from the canyon itself.  I haven't seen the proposal
itself, but I wouldn't be surprised to see a proposal to
declare almost everything in northwest Arizona as national
monument.

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2
Assault on Mount Mitchell cyclists ready to race to the top
Mon May 16, 2016 8:46 am (PDT) . Posted by:
"GoUpstate.com"
This is an article from the http://www.goupstate.com.

Ken Akerman thinks you might be interested in this.

Link to the article:
http://G52-SJweb.newscyclecloud.com/article/2016160519776

A message to you from Ken Akerman:
For those who like to bike rapidly up to highpoints, here is a bike race to consider.

Regards
Ken Akerman
Ken.Akerman@gmail.com

----------------------------------------------------------
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3a
Arbitrary nature of CoHPing. Why I do it.
Mon May 16, 2016 6:07 pm (PDT) . Posted by:
"Jobe Wymore"
I was fortunate to begin my list driven peakbagging pursuits when printing out maps at the university library was necessary along with being fun, the Internet was still dialup, when the list of "virgin counties" was more extensive than the ones that had specific CoHP ascents and when people still dropped this eGroup with 5+ postings a day. Yeah, the good ol' days.

I also was also fortunate to have my list driven peakbagging pursuits begin around State Highpointers Club, which had the added bonus of when the opportunity came to explain my hobby to whoever, they got it. I mean, it wasn't tough to explain. The goal is to try and reach the highest point in every state. It was that simple.

Oh(!), then CoHPing was introduced into my life. Sure, the arbitrary explanations began, but yeah, they got it. Sure some of them thought I was nuts, but they got it.

Now along comes this list or that. Should I accept this boundary or is it still in flux? Should I have my arbitrary threshold that I'm concerned with be at 300' of 5000'? Why not 299' or 4999'? Metric or Imperial? Should I include the "Lower 48" as my demarcation point leaving out Alaska and Hawaii, or is it the right thing to do? Oh, and this group is actually managing this so they from time-to-time merge (or expand) so that list may change. Also, don't forget to keep in mind this part of that list can still be expanded at any given time by Executive Order or a totally new addition thrown into the mix. How about that I found this list in a book (or a website) so now it's a list to be followed even though one individual arbitrarily decided to create it even though I wonder why they included that peak and excluded that one? Hmmm?

In my mind as arbitrary as CoHPing is, it still has the bonus of being able to be explained and understood. The goal = I'm trying to reach the highest point in this or that county. Who knows, maybe the highest point in every county of this (or that) state? Maybe more than one state? 3 or 4? Maybe this region or that? It's something where I don't need to present a mathematical computation into the mix while the explanation is being delivered. And sure, they may think I'm nuts but at least they're not glossy eyed (and thinking I'm nuts) by the time I'm done explaining what I do. They get it.

Jobe Wymore

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3b
Re: Arbitrary nature of CoHPing. Why I do it.
Mon May 16, 2016 8:28 pm (PDT) . Posted by:
"xander Carlson" xandathor
My wife once told me she would better understand this obsession if my goal was to just to visit every county in the United States, but not the need to be at the highest point of everyone. So at least she half understands it. Extra miling is a nice back up though too if for some reason I develop a chronic physical condition that keeps me from climbing again.

--------------------------------------------
On Mon, 5/16/16, Jobe Wymore lunasoars@aol.com [cohp] <cohp@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

And sure,
they may think I'm nuts but at least they're not
glossy eyed (and thinking I'm nuts) by the time I'm
done explaining what I do. They get it.



Jobe Wymore







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4
First Utah Completer in the news
Mon May 16, 2016 8:47 pm (PDT) . Posted by:
"Andy Martin" oldadit
Dub Bludworth is featured in a nice 3 minute video
and write up:

https://www.ksl.com/?sid=39784705

County and state high points are mentioned.
Dub got his start climbing peaks in AK,
and went on a few climbs with Vin and
Grace Hoeman.

(Jobe)
>>I also was also fortunate to have my list driven
>>peakbagging pursuits begin around State Highpointers Club

Likewise.

Jack Longacre did a great job in
getting the state Club started and running smoothly,
and later was gracious enough to run some of the early COHP
lists in the state HPers newsletter.

--- following not cohp related - National Park Prominence -----------

(Gustav)
> After a quick Google search, I turned up nothing when searching for a
> list of the most prominent peak in the National Parks. Do any of you
> know if such a list exists yet? Using that 300p master list from Loj I
> was able to find nearly all of them with the exception of the flatter
> few. I know that I read at least one trip report of someone pursuing
> this list, so I'm surprised it isn't "in print".

Don't recall seeing it "in print". Grand Canyon Park #1
prominence is much tougher than highest elev.

You've motivated me to prepare a rough draft on the 50
most prominent National Park peaks in the contiguous USA
(below).

And the highest 50 might be of interest to those chasing
high elevation peaks. (Dreaded Liberty Cap makes the cut)

- Andy

National Park 50 Most Prominent, Contiguous USA.
Andy Martin
5/14/2016
Peak information from ListsOfJohn.com - John Kirk

Draft ------------------------------------------------ Draft
Only the top 35 peaks listed so far, those with 3k+ prom.
State count
WA:11
MT: 9
CA: 7
NV: 2
TX: 2 !
WY: 1
AZ: 1
OR: 1
NC & TN 1/2 each
CO, ID, NM, UT: zero

Name Elev Prom State Counties Quadrangle
Rainier, Mount 14,410' 13,222' WA Pierce Mount Rainier West
Whitney, Mount 14,494' 10,079' CA Inyo & Tulare Mount Whitney
Olympus, Mount 7,969' 7,838' WA Jefferson Mount Olympus
Wheeler Peak 13,063' 7,568' NV White Pine Wheeler Peak
Grand Teton 13,770' 6,550' WY Teton Grand Teton
Telescope Peak 11,048' 6,188' CA Inyo Telescope Peak
Cleveland, Mt 10,466' 5,246' MT Glacier Mount Cleveland
Lassen Peak 10,457' 5,237' CA Shasta Lassen Peak
Spickard, Mount 8,979' 4,799' WA Whatcom Mount Spickard
Mica Mountain 8,664' 4,604' AZ Pima Mica Mountain
Grapevine Peak 8,738' 4,558' NV Nye Grapevine Peak
Clingmans Dome 6,643' 4,513' NC, TN Sevier & Swain Clingmans Dome
Emory Peak 7,825' 4,495' TX Brewster Emory Peak
Shuksan, Mount 9,131' 4,431' WA Whatcom Mount Shuksan
Stimson, Mount 10,142' 4,402' MT Flathead Mount Stimson
Kintla Peak 10,101' 4,401' MT Flathead Kintla Peak
Deception, Mt 7,788' 4,128' WA Jefferson Mount Deception
Prophet, Mount 7,660' 4,040' WA Whatcom Mount Prophet
Tin Mountain 8,953' 4,013' CA Inyo Tin Mountain
Goode Mountain 9,220' 3,840' WA Chelan Goode Mountain
Pyramid Peak 6,703' 3,723' CA Inyo East of Echo Canyon
Rainbow Peak 9,891' 3,636' MT Flathead Mount Carter
Dry Mountain 8,674' 3,614' CA Inyo Dry Mountain
Black Peak 8,970' 3,470' WA Chelan & Skagit Mount Arriva
Jackson, Mount 10,052' 3,406' MT Flathead & Glacier Mount Jackson
Electric Peak 10,969' 3,399' MT Park Electric Peak
Funeral Peak 6,384' 3,324' CA Inyo Funeral Peak
Blum, Mount 7,680' 3,300' WA Whatcom Mount Blum
Heavens Peak 8,987' 3,107' MT Flathead Mount Cannon
Siyeh, Mount 10,014' 3,106' MT Glacier Logan Pass
Luna Peak 8,311' 3,105' WA Whatcom Mount Challenger
Phillips, Mount 9,494' 3,054' MT Flathead Mount Saint Nicholas
Buckner Mountain9,112&#39; 3,052' WA Chelan & Skagit Goode Mountain
Guadalupe Peak 8,749' 3,039' TX Culberson Guadalupe Peak
Scott, Mount 8,929' 3,019' OR Klamath Crater Lake East

Draft ------------------------------------------------ Draft

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